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Thread: Waiting for the last minute
25-08-2011, 02:59 PM #1
we criticise the club so much for waiting till the last minute always before we do our business but I'm not so sure it is as simple as that. Yes there are benefits in that we can save a buck or 2 but I don't think that is the full story and I don't know how much control the club has over the issue.
Transfers are not about 1 team, it takes 2 to tango as they say. In fact, these days, it takes 3, 4, 5 or more with all the agents and wotnot. I think many teams do know when they have a valuable asset on their hands and, rather than them wanting to hold onto their best players, they want to milk them for all they're worth. Mata is a good example here. Valencia stated that there is no way they'll sell but really they are hoping for competition for his signature and a couple of the big spenders to come in and flash the cash. I think that, no matter what we offer, these clubs don't accept it straight off the bat & indstead go & see what they can get from the Chelsea's & City's of this world. Another aspect is the player himself. He wants to wait and see if a big club, or a rich club, gives him an offer. Again Mata shows this in that he said Spurs were interested but he wanted to wait to see if a club like Chelsea comes in for him.
We're kind of stuck in this respect. Adebayor said the same thing, that he was waiting to see what Real were going to do before he committed to us. I think that, as the window draws to a close and it becomes increasingly obvious that such an offer is not materialising, the club and player turn back to us.
Sadly, these clubs will always steal players from under our noses until we start winning silverware and/or paying astronomical fees. Right now we cannot compete financially with the Uniteds/Citys/Chelseas of this world and, whilst we might be an attractive prospect for any player, those of the calibre we now want will always be thinking of these clubs that win silverware. It is no coincidence that Arsenal are in a similar boat even despite them regularly being in the UCL. That does not mean we cannot get these players, that they are "unrealistic" targets, as some like to say, but just that we will have to be a little patient before they sign
I would not be surprised if we have numerous irons in the fire and we are the ones waiting on those targets. We might well find sudden movement in the market as it draws to a close as players realise what their options actually are, and this applies to those players on their way out the club too.
Last edited by basskadet; 25-08-2011 at 03:01 PM.
25-08-2011, 03:11 PM #2
I get what you are saying Bass but still can't help to think things would be done differently IF.....
Old Arry would stop saying who he is interested in....and possibly stop reuniting with players he has worked with before, reuniting can't feel that good
Negotiations would start maybe a few days before the window opens...
We all love money and people like DL love it just a bit more than others, not saying we should blindly spend but damn it put some serious cash on serious targets so they know we mean business...
DL needs to realize he can't make a profit on every player especially our flops....
Now if both Arry and DL and a few others would pull their heads out of their ass and get along we just might be able to form a decent team.
We can keep making excuses for the club but the bottom line is the club lacks a pair of these....
25-08-2011, 03:29 PM #3
I don't understand this rush to defend the undertakings of these last few windows or levys handling of them at least. He's not getting it done and its costing us what might be our only chance. Liverpool is coming back with owners that understand that spending equals winning equals profits. Arsenal will be back as well.
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najt rajder (25-08-2011)
25-08-2011, 03:33 PM #4
Sorry Javi, but I completely disagree.
I don't think Harry "talking about players we are interested in" has anything to do with anything. Every player has agents and they all offer their player around, it makes zero difference what Harry says and 90% of managers say who they are interested in, just look at Villas-Boas. If anything it helps as the player hears directly from the manager, and publicly, that he is wanted by the club.
Negotiations DO start as the window opens, in fact they go on even when the window is shut. Again, it is more complicated than us just wanting a player, entering talks and getting him. Sadly, we are not Man United, where as soon as they show their interest the player wants to join. Players want to win titles and silverware and United offer them that. We can't. We're a good team, and we have potential, but United can virtually guarantee medals. City and Chelsea are similar and, if not medals, they can offer serious cash that we cannot get near.
You could look at Liverpool and the business they did early, but look at the players they brought in. I wouldn't have ANY of them over who we already have at Spurs, altho I might have Adam in our squad.
We are after TOP players now and they will always be looking first at moves to TOP clubs. I fully believe we talk to clubs and players and get to a certain point but then get stuck as their agents start hawking them about, using our offer to drum up interest. We're then left with the pieces the top clubs don't pick up.
The 1 acception here is Falcao, as I really feel we could've got him over Atletico. Again tho, I think Atletico had some serious wedge after the sale of Aguero and we couldn't compete.
I don't think it is about Levy "wanting to make profit from flops" either. Selling Keane shows that. We have a deal agreed with Udinese too for Gio but it is the player holding things up as he wants a move to Seville.This kind of shows the point again.
We end up waiting on players and their agents. Transfers these days are far more complicated and there are too many people involved standing to make money. However, just the fact that we are showing interest in top players show we do have a set of cojones, but because of our club's current standing, we will just have to wait and be a little patient as, whether we like it or not, I think if we're going to make a big signing it can only happen in the final throws of the window
25-08-2011, 03:36 PM #5
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25-08-2011, 03:42 PM #6
We will just have to agree to disagree bass, honest amigo I am just sick of making excuses for the club.
Last edited by Javi; 25-08-2011 at 03:46 PM.
25-08-2011, 03:52 PM #7
Also, we DO spend money. We've spent LOADS over the years in getting players to get us to where we are & have regularly showed that we are not afraid to spend should the right player show up.
Thing is, we just have too much going on right now. We need to move players on to free up squad space - we have a lot of players earning more than £30-40kpw and if we sign bigger players on bigger wages who keep these others out our 25man squad it would be akin to flushing money down the toilet, not to mention the atmosphere it would create in the dressing room.
Before though, when we were splashing the cash, we were bringing in a level of player that effectively matched the level the club was at. We certainly weren't signing players of the quality of winning titles. However, our ambition now is precisely that. We want better than what we've got, we want to level up, and those sort of players will, unfortunately, be looking at the TOP clubs before they look at us. Until we start winning, or paying £200kpw, we'll just have to accept that. It does not mean, however, that we are not trying to bring them in & nor should it mean that we should give up.
The 1 MAJOR exception is Luis Suarez. I think we could easily have got him ahead of Liverpool but we backed out, & that was a mistake. I can see why we did, it was a massive gamble as there was no real evidence Suarez could fulfil the role we needed, but he has since shown that he can. We move on though.
Let's just wait and see what happens tho, I think we have learned a lesson from January too that, if we leave things too late they don't go thru, so I fully believe that the hold up is less from our end this time.
What I do find odd (& perhaps it backs up my argument) is that earlier in the window we were linked with everyone, left, right and centre. Now tho, in the final week, we are barely linked to anyone bar Diarra and Adebayor.
That might well show that we talked to people earlier on & those deals are on hold for now, perhaps as those players/clubs wait to see all their options. That is a total assumption on my part, but it is logical enough
25-08-2011, 04:07 PM #8
25-08-2011, 04:11 PM #9
The only strikers, the position we absolutely must improve, that I can think of who would be acquired so close to the deadline are Ade and Llorente. Ade because no team has to replace him and Llorente because the club won't buy someone from outside the region, Citeh and Bilbao will therefore sell at the deadline because they won't need to scramble for a replacement. Trying to buy other strikers this close to the end of the window is near impossible because the selling club won't be able to replace their lost star. While the VDV signing turned out great, the only reason we got him at the deadline is because Madrid didn't need a replacement. We therefore pigeonhole ourselves into looking at a small group of players and clubs who know they can hold us over the fire.
25-08-2011, 04:17 PM #10
what happened to the days where we were signing players like luka, bale and berbs ahead of the big boys?
25-08-2011, 04:22 PM #11
@Javi I agree with that, its a catch-22 in tat respect. However, we simply cannot have 1 player, let alone 2,3 or more, earning more than £30kpw not even in the squad. That is not just unacceptable, it is not financially possible, especially if we're serious about our new stadium.
Transfers have always been like a domino run, with 1 sale triggering another, and, just like a domino run, the more you have to set up, the longer it takes but, once they start to be knocked over, they all move very quickly. We just have too many to set-up at the moment and that is really where I agree with what you're saying. We should've been more prepared to take hits on these players in the past and to whittle them down more gradually but, because we failed to do that, we are now left with a difficult situation.
I don't believe the criticism over us not wanting to take hits on these players is still valid, altho we do want near to their market value. However, we have just left ourselves with a lot to do and too many pots on the boil at 1 time.
I still believe that the club's ambitions are to bring in the sort of players to push us on to the next level but I just do't think we ought to be surprised if getting those players does mean waiting to the last minute and I don't believe the club actually prefer it that way because its "cheaper" either, as Harry's own frustrations have been pretty evident over the window.
Last edited by basskadet; 25-08-2011 at 04:26 PM.
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25-08-2011, 04:24 PM #12
25-08-2011, 04:30 PM #13
i hope so i wish we were buying players who are in their prime not players who are past it or of unknown quantities
25-08-2011, 04:34 PM #14
Given Harry's track record of spending money like it isn't his and allegedly pocketing money left right and centre and tax avoidance, it is ay wonder that Levy clearly has his own players and agenda that he is working on. I would guess he has a consultant who he has shown Harry's list too. said consultant has probably gone through and said yes or no and put values on each player - Levy is sticking to that.
I'd rather finish 6th than 'do a Leeds'
25-08-2011, 04:41 PM #15
i would like to see what harry has spent in his tenure compared to jol and ramos (DC and arneson) it seems to me he has not had that much financial backing could be wrong tho?