Its a squad game!

[basskadet]

It really annoys me when people criticise their manager for fielding a weak team, often in the Carling Cup, after they lose. Nobody fields their Strongest team but the idea is that all your squad players, so long as they're fit, should be capable of doing a decent job.

So many Liverpool fans have come out saying Rafa was wrong for starting such a weak side. Its still Liverpool. Their back 4 were Degen, a Swiss international, Hyypia, a long time, very experienced Liverpool faithful, Agger, their first team CB, & Dossena, their first team LB. Harrdly lackin experience nor talent yet they defended like guff. These 2nd team players were all bought because Rafa believes them to be good players. You don't buy players for your reserves, you buy them, ultimately, to do a job in the 1st team. If someone drops out of the 1st 11 you would want one of the 2nd 11 to come in & not look out of place. We hardly started our first team but had we lost would we have been cursing Harry's selection? Or had Liverpool had won would they all be praising Rafa & the depth of their squad?

I've been watching a bunch of old 80's games & one of the 1st things I noticed is that they only used to name 1 sub back then (I had forgotten it was like that). Now you can make 3 & you can name an 18 man squad for each game. Its completely different.

As the cliche goes, its a squad game. If your 1st 11 goes out & plays bad you don't curse the manager, you ask how they can do better & question what went wrong. Maybe if Rafa knew we were lining up with our absolute best team it might be a little more valid to criticise but he really believed they could match us across the park &, on paper, I believe him. Compare the strikers, for example. We had Pava & Campbell (experience & youth) while they had Torres & N'Gog (experience & youth) & I would say that looks pretty evenly matched. We just played better & I'm extremely proud of the boys who may have been our '2nd' 11 but they played every bit as good as our 1st would have.

It was still Tottenham versus Liverpool, & we were the better side.

[ozric]

Or had Liverpool had won would they all be praising Rafa & the depth of their squad?

We surely didnt give them that opportunity tonight
If someone wants to beat the Spurs at WHL he should use his best. Also some days ago with his supposed best he was also defeated. Tonight he was almost humiliated. What must a man suffer before he wakes up?

[basskadet]

You're missing the point tho, its about using the team that you feel will do the job satisfactorily that will have the best impact on the club as a whole. I.E. allow your very best players the rest they need for the very best games. If you're playing for a club like Liverpool, each & every player right thru the squad should be capable of mounting a challenge on the pitch.

What's the point in using your best possible team to go out & thrash the opposition in a Carling Cup game & then having them all so knackered for the next league match they get beaten themselves. Espeially when your opponents aren't even playing their strongest side. My point is tho, watching Spurs, you wouldn't have known it was our 2nd team whereas we made Liverpool look like it was 3rd or 4th.

Many Liverpool fans have been picking out Lucas Leiva for criticism but he got them their winner in the last round, you could hardly drop him for the next game! Admittedly that was against Crewe & not Spurs but still.

Your squad players are all part of your club & you need them to be able to come & when they are needed. To do that the need game time & the Carling Cup early rounds are the best way to give them that so that when they are needed to muck in in the more important league games they arew not short of match fitness.

Incidentally 9 out of our 18 man squad for this game were British while only 1 (Jamie Carragher) was for Liverpool!

[ozric]

True mate. Rotating isn't an excuse nowadays. Its how the game is played. If every team is taking part in 4 competitions, you need all the players you can get and the quality of them is part of the club'squality too. Lets don't forget that some of these lads are supposed to be the feature starting 11.

[basskadet]

Exactly, Ozric. We had 2 similarly matched teams here & one played the other off the park.

It just really bugs me when they say 'oh, Rafa made a mistake, he should've played a stronger team, its not good enough' instead of saying 'wow, how good were Spurs tonight? They thoroughly beat us & deserved it".

[ozric]

It's pure ego when someone tries to use rotation as an excuse for an easy 4-2 defeat. I watched the game with a friend of mine, famous narrow-minded scouser here, and he didn't had nothing to say about his team line up because he agrees that the shirt, the team and the club are always there.
And lets be honest. Their squad wasn't so exotic tonight...
We have Kevin Prince Boateng!

[basskadet]

He did really well for us this time when he came on for the last 10min too! Good to see!

Anyway, I didn't mean to have a specific dig at Liverpool, people always seem to do it irrespective of the club.

Look at Arsenal. Everyone is gushing with praise for their performance against Wigan withe more 'Creme de la creme of youth' type comments, yet as soon as they lose they all say, 'Wenger won't win anything if he doesn't field his strongest side'!

[Clarkey_THFC]

Exactly, Im sick of managers making excuses when they field a weakened team, at the end of the day the fans pay to see their team play and expect a hard working performance etc.

It is still Liverpool, a top four team with great players. They had Torres on, fair enough hes jst getting back from injury but a half fit Torres is better than the majority of fully fit players in the league.

Benitez even brought Alonso on, so he must of wanted to get something out of the game when he realised they where well on their way to a defeat.

It still annoys me when Arsenal fans say it was only their second team we beat 5-1 last year. The guy I watched the match with was raging and was kicking every ball and he still had the cheek to make the statement about the kids! Man United won the league about 10 years back, when people said they werent good enough, Alan Hansen springs to mind and Alex Ferguson was dubbed a 'genius'. Wonder what would have happened if it had of back fired.

I think the likes of Arsene Whinger and Benitez should wise up!

[Beats]

We hardly started our first team but had we lost would we have been cursing Harry's selection? Or had Liverpool had won would they all be praising Rafa & the depth of their squad?

Probably right.

With comments about beating reserves or kids I always think you can only beat the team in front of you, it's not our fault Ar****l played kids who got beat 5-1 last season, or Liverpoo made so many changes last night. (Aside from the fact that we made plenty of changes too)

[P UNIT 1980]

If you go into a game with a weak side you must take on the responsibility of the prospect of getting beaten and possibly humiliated.

In effect he set out to loose by not fielding a strong side. Liverscum have undoubtedly rode their luck over the last 2 months and are not by far the finished article so if they drop out of the top 4 this comp could have been as important to them as it is to us.

It was Rafas fault, he picks the team but like beats said you play the team infront of ya and we did that and played them off the park with no Wooders, no Ledders, no Modric, no Bent and a hapless keeper (not quite as hapless as theirs).

[cum-on-u-spurs]

We surely didnt give them that opportunity tonight
If someone wants to beat the Spurs at WHL he should use his best. Also some days ago with his supposed best he was also defeated. Tonight he was almost humiliated. What must a man suffer before he wakes up?

I agree do you not think 'pool would have wanted to do good with what happened last time. They say they didnt have their good team on but thats just an excuse.

[Spurs_Pete]

Watching Phil Thompson on Sky and he was outraged at the performance. Probably thinking back to the days when he played 42 leauge games a season plus FA, League & European cup matches & Internationals on top of that. I can remember Steve Perryman playing 66 games for us in the 81/82 season. There was no rotation back then you played all games with the best possible team. The only time I remember us feilding a weak domestic team was just before the '81 cup final just in case of injuries, we got fined for doing it as well.

[LLOYDY]

As the cliche goes, its a squad game. If your 1st 11 goes out & plays bad you don't curse the manager, you ask how they can do better & question what went wrong. Maybe if Rafa knew we were lining up with our absolute best team it might be a little more valid to criticise but he really believed they could match us across the park &, on paper, I believe him. Compare the strikers, for example. We had Pava & Campbell (experience & youth) while they had Torres & N'Gog (experience & youth) & I would say that looks pretty evenly matched. We just played better & I'm extremely proud of the boys who may have been our '2nd' 11 but they played every bit as good as our 1st would have.


Well put mate......................

[basskadet]

Watching Phil Thompson on Sky and he was outraged at the performance. Probably thinking back to the days when he played 42 leauge games a season plus FA, League & European cup matches & Internationals on top of that. I can remember Steve Perryman playing 66 games for us in the 81/82 season. There was no rotation back then you played all games with the best possible team. The only time I remember us feilding a weak domestic team was just before the '81 cup final just in case of injuries, we got fined for doing it as well.

While this is true mate, they weren't playing against other teams rotating their squads. As soon as you've played the same team for 40 odd games & they start coming up against a fresh, fit team in the semi-finals, you're going to come a cropper. So as soon as 1 team starts rotating to maintain a high tempo thru all competitions, right thru the season, then everyone has to.

[anderton46]

Exactly, Ozric. We had 2 similarly matched teams here & one played the other off the park.

It just really bugs me when they say 'oh, Rafa made a mistake, he should've played a stronger team, its not good enough' instead of saying 'wow, how good were Spurs tonight? They thoroughly beat us & deserved it".

Spurs were huge favourites mate.

You seen the liverpool team? Take out Torres (and gomes) and then it's a walk over. The team they put out is somewhere like the strength of stoke or one of the promoted clubs. Very poor. We had all first team players who will go on to be playing more matches this season.