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Reply With Quotebazzabelfast (04-08-2008), brain_chilled (04-08-2008), Ledley4PrimeMinister (04-08-2008), mangobus24 (04-08-2008), MyGoula (04-08-2008)
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Where did this top 4 come from? Well, I'm guessing that it is supposed to cover those that finish in the top 4 places of the league and therefore qualify for the UEFA Champions League. However, its only really the top 2 that qualify for the CL proper while 3+4 have to play preliminary qualifying rounds. This system was introduced 10 years ago in the 1998-9 season however it was only the top 3 who went on to play CL football. That changed again in 2001/2 season to the system we now know.
Since 1998 the supposed 'top 4' have only finished as the top 4 4 times, 3 of those in the last 3 years. So while its true to say they are the dominant force, its only very recently the case and, for 2 of those 3 years, Spurs were 5th. So why is it such a stretch to believe we could get into the top 4? What's weird is, when was just the top 3 who qualified I don't remember anyone referring to them as 'the big 3'.
Certainly, over the 10 years, the league has been dominated by (as much as I hate to say it) Arsenal & man u. Chelsea were just as often finishing 7th as they were in the top 4 and Newcastle & Leeds were just as frequently up there.
What's interesting is, the first 3 years Leeds consistently finished in the top 4 but since then look whats happened! Now I am far from suggesting anything like that will happen to the current 'top 4' but it just shows that dominance may not last forever & the severity with which it can change.
If however, its more the size of the club and the players it attracts then I would argue that we aren't that far off them either. We're easily as big as Arsenal and I would argue that, until Abramovich's millions, we were bigger than Chelsea. We've certainly enjoyed more success in Europe than either Arsenal or Chelsea nd are the fifth most successful club ever in the UEFA cup having been in 3 finals and won 2.
So at what point did we start referring to things as the 'top 4'? I hear regularly about that freak year when Everton 'crashed' the top 4 but Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal & Man U had only occupied those places for one year prior to that point so we can't have thought it that great back then otherwise why don't we hear more about when Newcastle achieved it in the 2002/3 season AND the 2001/2?
I believe the big 4 is more a mindset that we have just gotten used to because of the sheer dominance in which the teams acquired those places in the last few seasons but even they have set a standard they have to live up to and I don't believe they can maintain it much longer. A good team will last 3 maybe 4 seasons before it needs to be rebuilt so this could surely be the year when things start to change.
Last edited by basskadet; 04-08-2008 at 12:42 AM.
bazzabelfast (04-08-2008), brain_chilled (04-08-2008), Ledley4PrimeMinister (04-08-2008), mangobus24 (04-08-2008), MyGoula (04-08-2008)
Too true. People always tell us we are 'crazy' for trying to play with the 'big kids' and that we should give up. That's ridiculous, and most of the people telling us that are scared gooners. We are big club, and next year people will be saying, "The big 5" or something equally as stupid.
Man I wish Abromivich and his Billions would just go away and there are some great points made in this post nice work
i agree with what you are saying for the most part, but i feel the top 4 is more than just a mind set. in recent years ALL the top for have been in the champions league final. thats impressive!
Also, the draw of champions league football carries some weight when trying to sign world class players. weve come across it when weve expressed interest in players, they say they want champions league football. some of our current player are saying it!
I think we can 'break into the top 4'. it wont be easy. as i see it at the moment, arsenal are the team that will drop out. theyve not made any decent signings and lost some key players. weve made vast improvements on our team and are looking good in the preseason. having said that, they did beat real madrid last night, another world class team. this season will be interesting im sure, and i think the scales could tip in our favour...
Give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a night, set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Also, Arsenal's young squad have aged now, and will still be stronger.
The way I see it is, if we were as strong as Arsenal or Liverpool (and we are getting very close) then we'd still only have a 50/50 chance to knock them out of the big 4.
Also, even though our players are looking as if they are gelling well together already, and our defence looks solid, we are not a settled squad yet.
The top four will always be difficult, especially this year, but WE CAN DO IT.
It would be nice if a 5th spot for 1st round champions league qualification was made open....
If its meant to be its meant to be!!!
You can have the best squad in the world but if you dont have that bit of luck on your side then you will win bugger all. Players need to be lucky, the Gaffer needs to be lucky, and the club overall needs to be lucky.
The top 4 is the holy grail in monetary terms and in terms of playing at the pinical of football. Thats fact, so as for that being a myth I personally think not.
Great post and I agree that times are changing and it needs to be us that steps up our game and kicks on to to the promised land. I know who I would like to nudge out of the upper echalon but to be honnest just as long as we are there I dont mind how we do it!!!
Maybe we could shell out on a few back handers like Woolwich did all those years ago to get us there......kinda level the scores a little.
I think its more than just a mind-set insofar that the Big 4 are doing things better than most other clubs, including attracting the money.
In terms of performance week in and week out, I believe that the league standing is the true-est reflection of the team's quality against the other teams'.
Be it selecting the right coach, team, backroom staff, financing (large stadiums & advertising etc) and so on . . .
As much as I admire Jol for taking Spurs to two 5th finishes, you could see that Spurs' game was very one-dimensional and in fact were spluttering to finish in 5th the last time. Jol & the team he led was the max that they could go, nothing new in terms of tactics & technique was coming through. In fact, I do think that we lost ground.
Players like Jenas & Lennon stagnated, they had exactly the same game as the day they walked into WHL. Robinson, had it even tougher and deteriorated.
But with Ramos you can see that the team has more tactics and are confident going forward. And because they do it at pace, the whole team looks good. In the past, we would have had to labour to break down opponent's defence because we were so slow in going forward, which I think is attributable to the coach and the players that we had at that time. My guess is that they trained that way, and it was reflected on the pitch.
My observation is that if the team performs poorly in one game - thats football, but if the team plays poorly consistently - its the coach!
So yeah, really looking forward this time. I am hoping that its no false dawn. With Ramos, Spurs look like they can go places!
The 'Top Four' is a statement used by the media and pundits to make their lives easier. They can't be arsed to keep referring to ManUre, Liverpool, Chelski and Arsehole separately!
I say that only part in jest. I think there is more than a grain of truth in it, in that it is made up by the media and pundits. Just the same as the term 'Big Five' was made up in the early/mid-80s.
Football, like most things, is very much cyclical. There is no guarantee of remaining in a dominant position forever. Yes, Liverpool did it for many years in the late-70s and 80s and let's face it, ManUre are right up there at the moment, but things will always change. If nothing else, maybe it will be enforced by UEFA one day!
Yeah, If Platini gets his way it'll probably only allow Championship clubs into CL!Originally Posted by funster
the top 4 is not a lie these teams are somewhat expected to finish in these positions at the start of the season .
well that is until this season starts because the general opinion is spurs will challenge for 4th possibly 3rd position and i agree.
indeed i will be disappointed if we dont as i think it is there for the taking .
the gooners are going down !!!
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and foremost about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
-Danny Blanchflower
Who cares on this site about RVP?
Interesting debate.Spurs to break into the top 4 and reach the holy grail.(holy grail is champions league qualification)
My brother said to me the other day "Tosh i see you have the spurs gitters again( spurs gitters in his language is when us tottenham fans believe at this time of year we will reach the holy grail ) and it always happens at this time of year".My answer was what are you talking about.He replys spurs always let you down.
I thought long and hard about this.He has a point.Primary example last year after 2 top 5 finishes only missing out to our a*rse rivals in the last game of the season. we must be top 4 material. What happens ?.We F*ck UP AGAIN. Only for the fact we win the carling cup and qualify for europe it was a disaster. But guess what ramos arrives.IS ramos the manager to take us to the holy grail.Everybody in football knows that if the spurs reach the holy grail it will bring the club to the next level and a league title will not be far away. This debate may go on well into next season.
Do we have the spurs gitters or will we see the holy grail?.
my vew this season will be very difficult so many changes Chimbomba robbo marlbranqe tiano keane out modric bently dos santas in all but a few changes. this season is about grooming and tranision a top 6 will be an achievement.If we get off to a flier like everton a couple of seasons ago who knows but i fear the worst not to achieve the holy grail
as a tottenham fan i will support to achieve this and will be there when we do when we do
move on with henry what have you won dont tell me champions league place
thats your god given right ha this year ar*senal will be the poor relations for the top 4
football conversation 25 posts who is trying to make a point you obviously want to make an impression tonight after a while we will just ignore your post and the spurs will move on
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