Felt a bit of a pang

[llanellispur]

Was in the gym earlier, Hamburg and Real were playing on the big screen when, without my expecting it, the camera panned to Big Martin Jol on the sidelines. Hadn't remembered that he was in charge at Hamburg now. Call me sentimental or whatever, and I do love Juande, but I felt a pang of regret, I miss the man.

[P UNIT 1980]

It was the accent that got me. Dutch is just so funny.

Shmoke a pancake!!!

Anyone remember when he likened The Hud to a "young Franz Beckanbauer". Mad as a bag of b*ll*x.

[BrumSpur]

I'm with you on that one, Llanelli Spur. Whenever I see Martin, I think of Muttley the dog, from 'Wacky Races' (they share a facial expression). Jol is a great big bear of a man, the sort who'd probably be a good laugh, over a drink in the pub.

And I liked his voice too, P Unit. Am a bit biased towards the Dutch, as my partner is an Amsterdammer (who, unfortunately, speaks English without the silly accent). Martin managed to make even the most boring football phrases sound amusing.

Juande Ramos is obviously a nice guy, with a sharp football brain. But for me, Jol had more presence, passion and charisma.

[basskadet]

I'm not sure you can say he's got more passion and certainly hasn't got the presence of Juande. Maybe charisma, I don't know cos, with Juande still not speaking English, its difficult to say. However, I agree that Martin definitely has a likable quality that is hard to put your finger on. I heard that, during the Hamburg v Real Madrid game, to which you refer, even some Arsenal fans were asking for his autograph (although I can't help wondering if their is some sort of idiotic joke amongst themselves).

Nevertheless I am not sad to see the back of him as he signed some shockers last year and was proper screwing up. Somehow his personality makes others find excuses for him and I can't remember how many times I heard pundits say "he would've turned things round if the board had given him time" and "Jol was let down by Comolli's poor signings". I'm not sure he would've turned anything round cos we had lost confidence fast and each game just got worse. I know he was under huge pressure but he certainly wasn't showing it and, to be fair, Juande was probably under more pressure tasked with winning everyone over & improving our season. Also, don't think Martin had no say in who we signed. i remember him distnctly bigging up Younes & Boateng. He definitely wanted them and the blame for their signings cannot solely rest with Comolli. Martin lost it toward the end and his decisions cost him. I believe that Juande's appointment was not necessarily written in stone but was set up in case they felt Martin crossed the point of no return. He did himself no favours there and proved to everyone that if we do want to break up the big 4's party, we needed a change. We were in a right state before Martin came and I will always have immense respect for him for bringing us up a level and getting us moving in the right direction but I honestly feel he had taken us as far as he could. I wish the circumstances could have been different but everyone's affection for the man clouded our judgements and have to praise Levy for keeping a business like head and seeing through the sentiments. We've not looked back but, at the same time, Martin will always be welcome down the Lane and that is how it should be. If he had been allowed to stay and things had gone from bad to worse, hell we could have been relegated it was so bad, we would not be talking about him so fondly and he would have still been fired. On top of it all we may not have gotten Juande if we had waited so I think things happened how they had to and everyone has come out OK in the end.

[punky]

I do miss him. He was a good man and ultimately we treated him like crap. Ramos or not, its still sad. He took us to two fifth place finishes..

[Mersey Spurs]

I still feel a lot affection for BMJ. A great BIG guy with a real soul. I wish all the best at hamburg

[llanellispur]

Basskadet do you not feel at all that the undermining of MJ's authority was a major influence on the loss of confidence? I am inclined to agree to an extent that he had made some poor decisions towards the end, particularly regards tactics, he seemed to become negative, however, I find your assumption that he would have got us relegated laughable. I know Juande came in and we done well for a few months up until the cup final but as he admits himself there is very often an upturn in form when a new man comes in and we were pretty shocking from then on in. I am confident that Juande's rebuilding programme seems positive but he has a great deal to prove this season, just as much as MJ did last season. Do you think the board will be photographed talking to Rijkaard if we don't win our first 4 games?

[toshenhamhotspur]

mj will always be part of our history but we need to move on he was treared bad
if juande improves us the way he can we will break that top 4 it just seems like
too many changes for it to happen this season but its there for the taking juande is
making his mark on this team though

[basskadet]

Basskadet do you not feel at all that the undermining of MJ's authority was a major influence on the loss of confidence?

Yes I do, toward the end, but I don't think it should have and is used too much as an excuse. First off, a good manager will protect his players from any such situation. Look at Liverpool. Rafa was being similarly undermined but his players just got on with it and even began to improve. I have alot of affection too for MJ and I'm not saying he was treated well, not by any means. However, a large part of it was his own making. I never said he would have got us relegated, I just meant that, if he hadn't improved & continued that run of form it was bad enough to get relegated. Our board recognised that and had to make an extremely tough decision in order to get our club moving in the right direction again. Our low confidence was largely down to our appalling start to the season where he completely failed to get his players fit enough. The scary sign for me was "Ghalygate". To have him go to Birmingham and announce to Steve Bruce that "we don't do running at Tottenham" was horrifying! We then consistently lost games in the last 10min and, when Juande arrived, it was stated that the level of the players' fitness was unaccptable. Juande has worked hard to change that since his arrival. Also, while I agree that there is normally an increase in form with the arrival of a new manager I don't believe it applies here. MJ's acrimonious departure left massive pressure on Juande & upset the players. Juande has had to win everyone over. I miss MJ but I do believe the right thing happened at the right time and there was a HUGE abount of media bullsh*t involved. Martin's moved on, so should we!

[madMARTINmarsh]

I thought martin jol was brilliant, a real character that had a real pressence at the lane. As a person I will miss him, as a manager? I wont know until the end of ramos's first season but at the moment Im gonna guess and say jol who?

[P UNIT 1980]

Joll was class and look at the job he did for us consistantly with players he inherited and then ones he never wanted. He had extreemly little to do with signing any players and that is part of the reason the relationship between him Leevy and Camoli (SNAKE) deteriated.

He demanded more controll over the signings and that p!ssed of Camoli (B!TCH) who wen running telling tales to his mate Leevy.

He has done a terific job at His new club as he has just won the Emirates Cup. If he'd been given the controll he wanted I think he would have pushed us on in to the CL last season.

Without the support of the board the players knew things were afoot and it disrupted the team and underminded his position. The club disgraced themselves throughout the whole situation and for me was the most embaresing time I have ever endured as a fan.

Nuff respect to big MJ, and would love to meet and beat him in a European match somtime soon.

Ramos is the new MJ and he will do just as gooda job as the flying Dutch man.

UP THE YIDS!!!

[berbaking]

very fond of bmj and woulds love to see him do well in the future.
as a man i really liked his style but as a manager i think the fitness aspect that ramos has had to bring in shows that he wasn't tough enough on the players and maybe he didn't realise what it took to lash away for 90 mins in the epl.
saying that two 5ths and a oh sorry very very nearly 4th is and will be something i will always remember himj fondly for and as well as that i laughed my ass off when he said "hello darling" to gabby.
funny funny guy.
i won't forget his last match and the crowd singing "stand up".... at least the fans sent him on his way with a smile on his face

[derryspur]

Was in the gym earlier, Hamburg and Real were playing on the big screen when, without my expecting it, the camera panned to Big Martin Jol on the sidelines. Hadn't remembered that he was in charge at Hamburg now. Call me sentimental or whatever, and I do love Juande, but I felt a pang of regret, I miss the man.

yes i miss mj as well gr8 manager 4 us

[LLOYDY]

I'm not sure you can say he's got more passion and certainly hasn't got the presence of Juande. Maybe charisma, I don't know cos, with Juande still not speaking English, its difficult to say. However, I agree that Martin definitely has a likable quality that is hard to put your finger on. I heard that, during the Hamburg v Real Madrid game, to which you refer, even some Arsenal fans were asking for his autograph (although I can't help wondering if their is some sort of idiotic joke amongst themselves).

Nevertheless I am not sad to see the back of him as he signed some shockers last year and was proper screwing up. Somehow his personality makes others find excuses for him and I can't remember how many times I heard pundits say "he would've turned things round if the board had given him time" and "Jol was let down by Comolli's poor signings". I'm not sure he would've turned anything round cos we had lost confidence fast and each game just got worse. I know he was under huge pressure but he certainly wasn't showing it and, to be fair, Juande was probably under more pressure tasked with winning everyone over & improving our season. Also, don't think Martin had no say in who we signed. i remember him distnctly bigging up Younes & Boateng. He definitely wanted them and the blame for their signings cannot solely rest with Comolli. Martin lost it toward the end and his decisions cost him. I believe that Juande's appointment was not necessarily written in stone but was set up in case they felt Martin crossed the point of no return. He did himself no favours there and proved to everyone that if we do want to break up the big 4's party, we needed a change. We were in a right state before Martin came and I will always have immense respect for him for bringing us up a level and getting us moving in the right direction but I honestly feel he had taken us as far as he could. I wish the circumstances could have been different but everyone's affection for the man clouded our judgements and have to praise Levy for keeping a business like head and seeing through the sentiments. We've not looked back but, at the same time, Martin will always be welcome down the Lane and that is how it should be. If he had been allowed to stay and things had gone from bad to worse, hell we could have been relegated it was so bad, we would not be talking about him so fondly and he would have still been fired. On top of it all we may not have gotten Juande if we had waited so I think things happened how they had to and everyone has come out OK in the end.

:dito:could'nt have said it better myself...............