Brazil League and Copa Libertadores

[aztattooedsean]

Does anyone follow the Brazil League is my first question as I am curious to start watching it as time wise it doesn't conflict with watching matches from Europe? I don't think I am quite ready to follow a club from it as I am focusing now on figuring out how they have 2 seasons it appears per year. Any assistance is cool.


As for the Copa Libertadores, I see they are now all qualified and ready to start group stage matches this upcoming Tuesday. I watched a few of the elimination rounds last year and I found it quite interesting. Anyone else watch any of this?

[BlueCrew LA]

I catch the occasional Brazilian match. I have family that live in Brazil and I've been a few times, Brazilian football is a lot of fun. We're Vasco fans which have a great history in Brazil, CR Vasco Da Gama sort of holds the same appeal as the Dodgers do in this country. So that's part of the reason why I like them. Vasco were progressive in the early days of Brazil, integrating black players and poor players. In early 1900's being poor was recognized on the same social class as being colored by the rich and mostly foreign elite. Vasco by fielding black and poor players made it possible for other clubs to eventually follow. Just imagine if players like Pele (black) or Garrincha (Poor) never got the opportunity to compete.

Right now the clubs are in their state championships, which is sort of like a pre-league. For a large chunk of Brazilian history they didn't have a proper league and the state championships were the big prize. You have to remember the geography of Brazil so when some of these clubs were popping up, it just wasn't realistic for Rio Clubs play away games in Sao Paulo and vice versa. So the little local competitions became the real prize. Just imagine if all the London clubs, and I mean all of them played in like a pre-league to the premiership season, that's what going on right now. That's why players like Leandro can have misleading goal scoring records.

So yeah after the state championships the real business starts. Vasco finished second last season missing the title by a couple points to Corinthians. I'm going to watch a bit more of Vasco this year and I'm flying out there in a couple months for a wedding, so I might try and catch a match.

[aztattooedsean]

I am just starting to follow it with the start of their new States season along with the start of the group stage of the copa libertadores 2012 tournament this week.


I am trying to figure this out as they seem to have so many states in Brazil. I am also researching the more known clubs as well at the moment- Santos FC, Sao Paulo FC, Corinthians, Flamengo, Internacional,


they have a confusing set up especially in their States Leagues that are played during this time of year. It is going to take a bit to get all of this.

[Rev John Ripsher]

Brazilian football league system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hope this helps a bit .

[aztattooedsean]

Brazilian football league system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hope this helps a bit .

Wikipedia is always hit and miss. I go there first with some things. This is a forum and I was stirring up conversation.

[stroud_jm]

I think @BlueCrew LA follows Brazilian football, I watch it every once in a great while when its on GolTV, but can't say I know that much about it.

[BlueCrew LA]

I am just starting to follow it with the start of their new States season along with the start of the group stage of the copa libertadores 2012 tournament this week.


I am trying to figure this out as they seem to have so many states in Brazil. I am also researching the more known clubs as well at the moment- Santos FC, Sao Paulo FC, Corinthians, Flamengo, Internacional,


they have a confusing set up especially in their States Leagues that are played during this time of year. It is going to take a bit to get all of this.

I seem to remember I responding to your other thread. :P

I catch the occasional Brazilian match. I have family that live in Brazil and I've been a few times, Brazilian football is a lot of fun. We're Vasco fans which have a great history in Brazil, CR Vasco Da Gama sort of holds the same appeal as the Dodgers do in this country. So that's part of the reason why I like them. Vasco were progressive in the early days of Brazil, integrating black players and poor players. In early 1900's being poor was recognized on the same social class as being colored by the rich and mostly foreign elite. Vasco by fielding black and poor players made it possible for other clubs to eventually follow. Just imagine if players like Pele (black) or Garrincha (Poor) never got the opportunity to compete.

Right now the clubs are in their state championships, which is sort of like a pre-league. For a large chunk of Brazilian history they didn't have a proper league and the state championships were the big prize. You have to remember the geography of Brazil so when some of these clubs were popping up, it just wasn't realistic for Rio Clubs play away games in Sao Paulo and vice versa. So the little local competitions became the real prize. Just imagine if all the London clubs, and I mean all of them played in like a pre-league to the premiership season, that's what going on right now. That's why players like Leandro can have misleading goal scoring records.

So yeah after the state championships the real business starts. Vasco finished second last season missing the title by a couple points to Corinthians. I'm going to watch a bit more of Vasco this year and I'm flying out there in a couple months for a wedding, so I might try and catch a match.

What do you need to know?

@aztattooedsean

[BlueCrew LA]

P.S. Vasco won today against Friburguense in the Rio state championships (Campeonato Carioca), we looked pretty poor first 40min, I didn't think we'd turn that around.

[Bogota Yid]

I am just starting to follow it with the start of their new States season along with the start of the group stage of the copa libertadores 2012 tournament this week.


I am trying to figure this out as they seem to have so many states in Brazil. I am also researching the more known clubs as well at the moment- Santos FC, Sao Paulo FC, Corinthians, Flamengo, Internacional,


they have a confusing set up especially in their States Leagues that are played during this time of year. It is going to take a bit to get all of this.

I watch a lot of South American football as its where im currently living. I watch more Colombian,Argentine and other leagues football more than i do Brazilian as its in a different language most of the time. However, the Copa Libertadores is normally dominated by Brazilian and Argentine teams so i get to watch them quite a bit there.
Vasco de Game are a big side although the biggest Clasico in Rio is Fla Flu, which is one of the biggest worldwide also. Palmerias Corinthians is the biggest clasico in Sao Paulo and Gremio Internacional in Porto Alegre. Corinthians Flamengo is also huge as they are 2 big teams from the 2 biggest cities.
Im not sure which team could be considered the biggest in Brazil but Santos and Palmerias have the most titles, 8 a piece. Ive always though of Santos when i think of Brazil 1st, i suppose largely due to Pele but Fla Flu is really incredible.

[aztattooedsean]

I seem to remember I responding to your other thread. :P



What do you need to know?

@aztattooedsean

I know I will eventually have questions but it is so brand new at the moment that I don't know what exactly I will want to ask.

[BlueCrew LA]

Vasco de Game are a big side although the biggest Clasico in Rio is Fla Flu, which is one of the biggest worldwide also.

True....

As for CR Vasco da Gama, I like them because they're offbeat. The only one of Rio's "big clubs" that don't play in the Engenhao (big matches are played at the Maracana). The two huge clubs in regards to exposure Rio are Flamengo and Fluminense but I've always liked how Vasco are the outsiders to what are considered the "big clubs". They are a real club, not just a football club, they have a few sports and the Basketball team is real popular. Even though Vasco aren't the most popular in Rio they've won the league a few times (more than Fluminese and one less then Flamengo) and Copa Libetadores. Both Flamengo (32) and Fluminese (30) have more state championships, which is why in the mind of Rio citizens for years before proper leagues were introduced Flamengo and Fluminese are considered bigger and that persists. I guess a comparison for European football fans would be Everton but with support similar to Newcastle. Everton have a great history but still they're seen as the 3rd best team in that region historically behind United and Liverpool.

Still though, it's a very likable club. Like I said earlier Fla Flu exceed Vasco in exposure and but in actual support Vasco is the second highest supported club in Rio and one of the highest supported clubs in Brazil. A lot of that comes from the history of acceptance which I referenced in my first post. Similar to how the Dodgers have older fans from around the country because they were so progressive.

The top goal scorer ever was a man named Roberto Dinamite, with 704 goals, yes I said Dinamite (and it's pronounced exactly how you think). He's now the president of the club and is its biggest personality. Now that number of 704 goals may be a bit shocking but if you're going to support a club in Brazil, you have to know to take all goal scoring records with a massive grain of salt. Nowadays they're more clear but back in the old days they would include State Championship matches (obviously but it's a bit different then scoring against Flamengo), Friendlies, players/clubs have even been known to include goals scored in training matches. Then of course there are cases were goal statistics were just straight made up and it happens with all players, Pele's goal scoring record is a bit dodgy if you really look at it.

Anyways still Roberto Dinamite was a good player, true legend at the club, turned down Europe for years to stay in Brazil and even rival fans admire him for that. The most famous player produced by Vasco and play most of his career there was Romario (even though he was a bit of a merc). My personal favorite player was Edmundo, not a huge name to European football fans but he's one of the more skilled players I've seen play.

I know @Bogota Yid says Santos are the biggest club in Brazil and I think they have a shout, they definitely aren't lower then second. They are the most famous club outside of the country definitely because of the players would played there like Pele. They've won the most, but I was always under the impression that in Brazil Sao Paolo or Corinthians are considered the biggest clubs how ever vague that might be. I think they have the biggest fan bases, were the richest clubs, whereas Santos are the most successful club. Until recently though like 2002 to 2005-ish in Brazil Santos were seen almost like Liverpool. They had great players and a great history but they weren't as dominate as they were. Nowadays though with Ganso, Neymar and the rest of the boys they're considered a truly big club again. Semantics really but that's always the impression I get talking to Brazilians.

@Bogota Yid Who do you support in your neck of the woods?

I hope to be watching more Boca matches if Nicolas Gaitlan a 16 year old American who recently signed makes it into the first team.

[BlueCrew LA]

One more thing, you haven't been to a football match until you've been to Boca v River or a big Derby match at the Maracana with any of the Rio clubs. In Brazil, or really in all of South America, fans compete against each other. Being considered the better fan on that day is almost as important as the match itself. Fans will regularly try to out due each other and it's a great atmosphere to be in. You have to be committed though, it's not like an Arsenal match were fans can sit and not make any noise. You'll get a bunch of stick by people around you if you aren't getting involved even if you're only visiting. I remember back in the day when every English club used to have

An example Vasco v Fluminense at the Maracana.

[Bogota Yid]

I think that makes sense. Corinthians are supposedly the richest club now but Santos have been more successful, although i dont agree that Corinthians and Sao Paolo have the biggest fanbase. I have always thought Flamengo had the most fans. I know Sao Paolo is bigger than Rio(and in the top 5 cities in the world) but its often the case that teams from smaller cities have more fans.

[Bogota Yid]

One more thing, you haven't been to a football match until you've been to Boca v River or a big Derby match at the Maracana with any of the Rio clubs. In Brazil, or really in all of South America, fans compete against each other. Being considered the better fan on that day is almost as important as the match itself. Fans will regularly try to out due each other and it's a great atmosphere to be in. You have to be committed though, it's not like an Arsenal match were fans can sit and not make any noise. You'll get a bunch of stick by people around you if you aren't getting involved even if you're only visiting. I remember back in the day when every English club used to have

An example Vasco v Fluminense at the Maracana.

Graet vid. Really captures the atmosphere and intensity of South American football. Ive never been to a Brazilian game, but to be fair i think there are many games apart from just Boca River in Argentina that sh·t over many European derbies and im sure there it is the same. Independiente Racing is one such example in Argentina that doesnt get anywhere near the attention that Boca River does but it intense as hell. Like you said in South America trying to out do the other fans is just as important at the game. Ive seen Boca fans sing non stop all game even when losing and i have never heard fans sing so loudly as Bocas even when they were playing away. I actually missed Boca River by a couple of days when i was in Argentina. I was really gutted and wanted to try and extend my trip for a couple of days but it wasnt possible unfortunately. Got to see Velez Boca though.
I love your Arsenal comment and it is very true. Actually in Argentina they have songs which chant "anyone who doent jump is a f·cking Englishman" which although does make me remember how much i can dislike them also makes me laugh. They know how to have a good time. In Colombia there are a few games which are pretty mental- Millos v Sante Fe being the clasico in the capital Bogota and then Medellin v Nacional and America v Cali in the other big cities and pretty much any games between those sides can get quite intense especially Millos v Nacional. Unfortunately it can often also get very violent which is a big problem in most Latin American countries. In Argentina its a joke how bad the barra bravas are and also how much power they have. Sinister stuff.
My time here Blue Crew La is Millos, although i often go to the staduim its more for the atmos as there is only 1 team i will ever love and it isnt blue!

[US_Spurs_Fan]

Are you able to actually watch the games? I've never seen any of the South American leagues carried on TV. Maybe GolTV has them, but I don't get it.