Why I am In Support For the Olympic Stadium

Well said! Although I would prefer to stay at the Lane. I do also see things from a commercial and logistical standpoint.

People will comment that I am not from Tottenham so my dedication might not be as great as someone who was born in spitting distance of the Lane. This could not be further from the truth.

I originally posted no to the move at all costs BUT if the option is to stay where we are and not build due to the massive debt it would bring or move to a fantastic new stadium and be able to compete with Europes top teams then who am I to stop this.

Tottenham High Road will always be home as that is where the hart is but it should not stay that way if it means the club taking a massive step back.

as much as I am loathe to concede North London to the scumsuckers down the road, there is a very narrow window that we have to capitalize on the current batch of players, the Champion's League money and raised profile to take the club from strength to strength.

Everton, Newcastle and Blackburn have broken the top 4 before but were unable to sustain it and have since fallen away. We risk being in this position if we do not make hay as the top4 sun shines.

Believe me I would HATE moving out of N17. But I would be more disappointed if we fail to make our special season last year count for something and build on the momentum we've built up.

Our wage cap and limitations in the transfer market are impediments that would be eased if we had the gate receipts to bring in the cash. If we do move to OS, I blame the City Council, not Levy. They are the ones that have been taking the piss and with the budget cuts, they are even more desperate for it.

The reason the public demonstrations may work against us is it gives Haringey leverage in negotiations. Privately, they must be rubbing their hands together and adding more transport links and rebuilding projects to their demands, knowing that OS is an unpopular decision.

If Levy is using OS as brinkmanship against Haringey, we are scuttling his efforts with public disapproval and by giving Haringey more leverage, ironically, we force him towards OS as Haringey's demands escalate based on the unpopularity of the 'brinkmanship' option. If Levy was playing poker with Haringey, it's the equivalent of us holding a mirror on his cards with a placard saying 'He's got nothing!'

I WANT TO STAY AT WHL, but I'm not convinced we are helping Levy with public displays of our disapproval.
Haringey are milking us for everything we've got and rather than protest against the club, direct it at Haringey.

They are trying to make us rebuild their area on our dime, and it's taking funds that we could be using on Suarez, Llorente, Huntelaar, or tying down Modric, VDV, Dawson, Bale and Lennon to longer contracts.

It should be made clear to all business owners of the area that you'd be sad if we move to OS, because we'd never come to N17 if WHL wasn't there.
Then let them take it up with the Council. Apply the pressure on the bad guys, not on Levy, who's doing the best he can.

I am slowly coming round to the idea. When it comes down to it, I want us to win things and if that means going os so be it.

Haringey have been deeply unhelpful towards Spurs and have pushed, and delayed Spurs for years over their new stadium. Haringey have more to lose than Spurs, than vice versa... even if the MP wants to try and ransom us over our name.

The end of the day, I do trust Levy to do right for Spurs, as crazy as that might seem... I don't want Spurs to move from White Hart Lane, but if Haringey won't at least be helpful, I don't see why we should attack Spurs policy, and not Haringey who are the route cause of all our problems in redeveloping N17.

Heroes I respect your position. One thing that has been lost in media hogwash about NDP vs OS is that if the NDP was successful it would be the better option. The NDP is designed to pay for it's self and in fact make a profit. The numbers being thrown around I've stated before aren't completely correct. It isn't as simple as we'll save £200m by moving to OS.

The only reason why Levy would favor OS over NDP is because it's easier, end of. The NDP is a multifaceted complicated scheme with many moving parts. Though it's more difficult, IMO it's the right thing to do. We belong in North London, We can build in North London and we can have success in North London. The only question is do we have a board that's willing to give the effort needed to do the right thing.

Disgusting, my finger is hovering over the ban button.

Originally Posted by basskadet

Disgusting, my finger is hovering over the ban button.

disgusting if you're serious

Sorry for being stupid but how far is os from the lane?

I imagine this will be an extremely unpopular opinion, brave of you to put a voice to the other side of the discussion. I believe @BlueCrew LA has been spot on any issues regarding the stadium so hopefully this discussion won't go on any longer than the 28th.

Originally Posted by ...And Justice For All

disgusting if you're serious

You're getting banned 'n all





mwaah-hah-hah

Originally Posted by basskadet

You're getting banned 'n all

mwaah-hah-hah

@basskadet - isn't the first step an infraction/warning ?

Well, if I think that you are spamming, I can issue a ban outright. "Say YES to Stratford", that has to be spamming, right? You're trying to sell it to me after all

Heroes is offering a healthy balance.

I see nothing wrong with having an informed debate about this issue, it makes it less likely that a major rift develops between the fans if people have a more nuanced understanding of the issues involved. It also makes it harder for people to try and manipulate the fans for their own agenda.

Well from a financial stand point, now would be the time to invest most in. The NDP seems like a good idea, the poor economy won't last forever and when it recovers, the debt will be easier to pay off. I just hope that we don't end up in the situation that the scummers are in, with debt trying to pay off there loans. I've heard their fans argue that they have money, but really i don't believe it. The last time they spent money was on Arshavin, which was paid for outright by their board.

But back to NDP, the I'd rather not leave NL and just allow the Scummers to control it.

@BlueCrew LA I have noted your very well made points on why the 'gap' in finance between the NDP and the OC is not as large as I and others have stated. I would just like to point out the one key issue you ignore:

The total cost of demolishing and building a new stadium at the OC is quoted at 250m let's assume that this is understated and is in reality it's 300m. With the NDP there are substantial 'hidden' associated costs which do not exist with the OC but let's ignore these and stick with the accepted total budget of 450m, let also accept that sale of a hotel (who wants to stay in a hotel in N17) a supermarket and houses recoups 100m we therefore have a difference of only 50m ...... staying at N17 would also involve playing two seasons in a half built stadium with much reduced capacity, which the OC would avoid, but 50m and two seasons of disruption would be a price worth paying if they were the only issue BUT

You miss the one key advantage of the move: When we move we can sell the substantial land and properties THFC own in N17, now whilst this won't raise the 400m Arsenal got for the Highbury development a conservative value puts these assets at between 115m-135m that would all be 'money in the bank' so to speak, redevelopment of the entire site could increase this to 200m, double the 100m the NDP proposes as you would no longer include a stadium. This 200m plus 150m naming rights gives us a debt free new home and 50m in the bin, this is reason alone for Mr Levy and our board to rightly pursue the OC option.

Now if Haringey were to look to support us and help fund this variance, rather than try and shaft us with more and more costs, I would be 100% behind the NDP, do I want to leave N17 of course not. Do I believe the OC is the best for the future of the Club with a heavy heart yes I do .......

Firstly I know my opinion counts for three fiths of Fu%# all cos I'm fron aus but I want tottenham to be succesful and if it means moving then so be it. Just hard to know those cnuts up the road will have the north to themselves.

Originally Posted by EliteKiller

@BlueCrew LA I have noted your very well made points on why the 'gap' in finance between the NDP and the OC is not as large as I and others have stated. I would just like to point out the one key issue you ignore:

The total cost of demolishing and building a new stadium at the OC is quoted at 250m let's assume that this is understated and is in reality it's 300m. With the NDP there are substantial 'hidden' associated costs which do not exist with the OC but let's ignore these and stick with the accepted total budget of 450m, let also accept that sale of a hotel (who wants to stay in a hotel N17) a supermarket and houses recoups 100m we therefore have a difference of only 50m ...... staying at N17 would also involve playing two seasons in a half built stadium with much reduced capacity, which the OC would avoid, but 50m and two seasons of disruption would be a price worth paying if they were the only issue BUT

You miss the one key advantage of the move: When we move we can sell the substantial land and properties THFC own in N17, now whilst this won't raise the 400m Arsenal got for the Highbury development a conservative value puts these assets at between 115m-135m that would all be 'money in the bank' so to speak, redevelopment of the entire site could increase this to 200m, double the 100m the NDP proposes as you would no longer include a stadium. This 200m plus 150m naming rights gives us a debt free new home and 50m in the bin, this is reason alone for Mr Levy and our board to rightly pursue the OC option.

Now if Haringey were to look to support us and help fund this variance, rather than try and shaft us with more and more costs, I would be 100% behind the NDP, do I want to leave N17 of course not. Do I believe the OC is the best for the future of the Club with a heavy heart yes I do .......

I understand your view and I don't really want to harp on this point but some of your numbers seem to be off. To assume that we would make the amount you've estimated simply selling our assets is very speculative. The NDP in a sense is designed to raise the value of the land around WHL. The primary reason we need to to that is to get a competive loan. The area around WHL in it's current state wouldn't be a financial boom if it's sold. Actually I would like to get an estimate of exactly how much the land is valued at, I wouldn't imagine much.

You also mentioned how much in your estimation building a stadium after a demolition would cost at the OS, £250m. I feel like a broken record but I'll restate this one more time. The NDP is a multifaceted project, a stadium being one part. If we we're just going to build a 55k seat stadium we could do it for around £250m. The NDP is designed to pay for it's self and yes, make a profit. When it's all said in done and everything is paid for the value of our assets will be much higher then anything OS could offer.

.... I haven't really discussed this before but how about the fact that the OS is a bad design. Even if we are awarded it and demolish it, the NDP is a superior design. Whether it be the preservation of the historic buildings, the museum or the massive Spurs shop. The only advantage the OS has are the transport links. It's a big ugly hunk of concrete with no real ambiance. The NDP would have amazing atmosphere, as well as the true fans.

I'll state my position once again. Moving to the OS is nothing but the easy way out. Staying in N17 will take effort and commitment, it's viable, it's just hard.

@EliteKiller I would like to correct a small mistake in your otherwise well argued statement .

"Two seasons in a half built stadium" is only partially correct and insinuates lower attendances .. part of the positive side of the NDP is that we will not be transferring over to the new stadium until 3 sides have been built , this means that attendances will actually be higher even with 3 sides than the entire 4 sided WHL .

Property value Tottenham v Arsenal

Average house price N17 = 220k
Average house price N7 = 340k

House Price Guide

Not to get mired in details but the land owned by THFC in N17 is considerable larger than that owned by Arsenal at Highbury. They made 400m from redevelopment and were restricted by preservation orders from making full use of the site. We have no such restrictions and should easily be able to achieve 50% of what they raised so 200m is probably a massive underestimate rather than an overestimate. Whilst I do appreciate your excellent arguments you should avoid using unsupported statements like:

The area around WHL in it's current state wouldn't be a financial boom if it's sold. Actually I would like to get an estimate of exactly how much the land is valued at, I wouldn't imagine much.

N17 is undoubtedly the underbelly of London but for all that it's still London and still has an easily verifiable value, for simplicity I used average house prices as this is an easy comparison.

I admire your attempts to make the figures fit the argument and I wish you were correct but in the end the numbers are what they are and the OC just makes massively more financial sense, a positive difference of at least 200m.

As for your point about the new stadium at the OS site, I don't get it .... we're a football club the only reason we would build hotels, supermarkets, houses etc. is because we have the extra land to do it and Haringey council insists on it. If in your often stated argument we sell the hotel, supermarket and houses to recover some of the costs how then do we make money from our multi-faceted project when all we end up owning is the stadium.

At the OS site everything is already there it's a purpose built sporting venue, we can just focus on become Europe's premier side, surely that's what the Club should be all about.